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Since: Jan 06, 2004
Posts: 82
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(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 12:02 am
Post subject: Will 15 wins be enough?
Archived from groups: alt>sports>baseball>az-diamondbacks, others (more info?)
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Does anybody think 15 wins will be enough for Randy Johnson to win his
sixth Cy Young award? Does he need another win, or would even that not be
enough? Will the D-Backs pitch him on Sunday to get him that 16th win in
the hopes that it will be?
Looking at the stats, Johnson leads the majors in strikeouts (282),
although it's virtually a lock that he won't hit 300 this year. He's
second in the majors in innings pitched (behind Livan Hernandez). His
2.65 ERA is fourth in MLB among all qualifiers (only Jake Peavy, Carlos
Zambrano and Johan Santana are ahead of him), and he's got the most
innings of any of the top four ERA pitchers. Only Santana out of that
group is within 15 innings of the Big Unit (although Ben Sheets at number
5 is within 10).
He's tied with Santana for most Quality Starts in the majors. His 0.89
WHIP is lowest in the majors, as is his opponents' OBP, and his
opponents' SLG. This leads to an opponents' OPS that's nearly 20 points
better than the next best pitcher (Santana again).
Baseball Prospectus's Value Over Replacement Player (VORP) shows Johnson
with the third-best VORP in the majors, behind only Johan Santana and Curt
Schilling (both of those guys are in the AL). And the difference between
Johnson and fourth place (Carlos Zambrano in the NL) is more than double
the difference between Johnson and second place (Schilling).
In short, Randy Johnson has again dominated hitters the way nobody else in
the NL can quite match, and he's got a claim on being the most dominant
pitcher in the majors. He's just doing it while pitching for the worst
team in the major leagues. Given who his teammates are, 15 wins isn't a
disappointment, it's a freaking miracle. I wonder if the voters will
notice. Sadly, I suspect not.
--Paul
** Note "removemunged" in email address and remove to reply. ** |
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Since: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 148
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(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:35 am
Post subject: Re: Will 15 wins be enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Personally I don't believe the voters will give it to RJ this year. While
he probably deserves it, there is some precedent that previous multiple
award winners(Pedro, Maddux, Clemens) have to really put up monster numbers
to win it again and 15 wins is just not going to cut it with the voters(I'd
wonder if the average voter is even familiar with VORP). It was Jason
Schmidt's to lose a month ago and he seems to have done just that though.
This year's race is really wide open. My bet would be on one of the 2 Astro
pitchers to win it.
--
"They tease me now, telling me it was only a dream. But does it matter
whether it was a dream or reality, if the dream made known to me the
truth?" - Dostoevsky |
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Since: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 286
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(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 4:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Will 15 wins be enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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"Chris Zabel" <alephnull.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<BQr6d.6431$Ki1.3996@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
> Personally I don't believe the voters will give it to RJ this year. While
> he probably deserves it, there is some precedent that previous multiple
> award winners(Pedro, Maddux, Clemens) have to really put up monster numbers
> to win it again and 15 wins is just not going to cut it with the voters(I'd
> wonder if the average voter is even familiar with VORP). It was Jason
> Schmidt's to lose a month ago and he seems to have done just that though.
> This year's race is really wide open. My bet would be on one of the 2 Astro
> pitchers to win it.
He doesn't deserve it when his team is the worst team in baseball and
there are other pitchers deserving of the award like Clemens, who
defnitely deserves it. >> Stay informed about: Will 15 wins be enough? |
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Since: Aug 08, 2004
Posts: 2
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(Msg. 4) Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:33 pm
Post subject: Re: Will 15 wins be enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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wunnuy wrote:
> "Chris Zabel" <alephnull RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<BQr6d.6431$Ki1.3996@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
>
>>Personally I don't believe the voters will give it to RJ this year. While
>>he probably deserves it, there is some precedent that previous multiple
>>award winners(Pedro, Maddux, Clemens) have to really put up monster numbers
>>to win it again and 15 wins is just not going to cut it with the voters(I'd
>>wonder if the average voter is even familiar with VORP). It was Jason
>>Schmidt's to lose a month ago and he seems to have done just that though.
>>This year's race is really wide open. My bet would be on one of the 2 Astro
>>pitchers to win it.
>
>
>
> He doesn't deserve it when his team is the worst team in baseball and
> there are other pitchers deserving of the award like Clemens, who
> defnitely deserves it.
What does the team record have to do with an individual pitcher's
performance? You obviously are not a student of the game to make that
statement. Johnson may not win it, but his numbers are superior to
Clemens in just about every category. Clemens started out this season
very strongly. You may want to check out how he's pitched since.
If you really want to dig deeper, you might want to check out how much
the lack of run support for Randy Johnson affected his record. Give him
the same as Clemens and he wins well over 20 games. >> Stay informed about: Will 15 wins be enough? |
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Since: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 964
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(Msg. 5) Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 7:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Will 15 wins be enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On 9/29/2004 4:34:35 PM, wunnuy wrote:
> He doesn't deserve it when his team is the worst team in baseball and
> there are other pitchers deserving of the award like Clemens, who
> defnitely deserves it.
I wasn't aware it was a team award. Guess they should just give it to
the Cardinals.
--
"I'm a traditionalist... Nobody loves tradition and history as much as
I do." - Bud Selig >> Stay informed about: Will 15 wins be enough? |
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Since: Jul 23, 2004
Posts: 123
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(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:23 am
Post subject: Re: Will 15 wins be enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Though team record should not have anything to do with a pitcher's
performance, unfortunately I think a lot of consideration goes into it.
Randy has had a pretty solid season but has gotten no run support at all.
And the Diamondbacks just outright stink this year. Because he is Randy
Johnson he will get some consideration but I would be very surprised if he
won. All to often it comes down to the winner's record and he has just not
won enough games. If he had won 20 or more with this team he would have an
excellent chance but not with 15. Just my thoughts.
ME
"magikman45" <magikman45.RemoveThis@cox.net> wrote in message
news:415B546D.7000306@cox.net...
>
>
> wunnuy wrote:
> > "Chris Zabel" <alephnull.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:<BQr6d.6431$Ki1.3996@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
> >
> >>Personally I don't believe the voters will give it to RJ this year.
While
> >>he probably deserves it, there is some precedent that previous multiple
> >>award winners(Pedro, Maddux, Clemens) have to really put up monster
numbers
> >>to win it again and 15 wins is just not going to cut it with the
voters(I'd
> >>wonder if the average voter is even familiar with VORP). It was Jason
> >>Schmidt's to lose a month ago and he seems to have done just that
though.
> >>This year's race is really wide open. My bet would be on one of the 2
Astro
> >>pitchers to win it.
> >
> >
> >
> > He doesn't deserve it when his team is the worst team in baseball and
> > there are other pitchers deserving of the award like Clemens, who
> > defnitely deserves it.
>
>
> What does the team record have to do with an individual pitcher's
> performance? You obviously are not a student of the game to make that
> statement. Johnson may not win it, but his numbers are superior to
> Clemens in just about every category. Clemens started out this season
> very strongly. You may want to check out how he's pitched since.
>
> If you really want to dig deeper, you might want to check out how much
> the lack of run support for Randy Johnson affected his record. Give him
> the same as Clemens and he wins well over 20 games.
> >> Stay informed about: Will 15 wins be enough? |
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Since: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 286
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(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:49 am
Post subject: Re: Will 15 wins be enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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magikman45 <magikman45.RemoveThis@cox.net> wrote in message news:<415B546D.7000306.RemoveThis@cox.net>...
> wunnuy wrote:
> > "Chris Zabel" <alephnull.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<BQr6d.6431$Ki1.3996@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
> >
> >>Personally I don't believe the voters will give it to RJ this year. While
> >>he probably deserves it, there is some precedent that previous multiple
> >>award winners(Pedro, Maddux, Clemens) have to really put up monster numbers
> >>to win it again and 15 wins is just not going to cut it with the voters(I'd
> >>wonder if the average voter is even familiar with VORP). It was Jason
> >>Schmidt's to lose a month ago and he seems to have done just that though.
> >>This year's race is really wide open. My bet would be on one of the 2 Astro
> >>pitchers to win it.
> >
> >
> >
> > He doesn't deserve it when his team is the worst team in baseball and
> > there are other pitchers deserving of the award like Clemens, who
> > defnitely deserves it.
>
>
> What does the team record have to do with an individual pitcher's
> performance? You obviously are not a student of the game to make that
> statement. Johnson may not win it, but his numbers are superior to
> Clemens in just about every category. Clemens started out this season
> very strongly. You may want to check out how he's pitched since.
You're obviously not a student of the game if you don't know writers
take into consideration where the pitcher's team finishes up. You may
want to check out how Cy Young voting has went in the past before you
tell someone else they don't knwo what they're talking about. >> Stay informed about: Will 15 wins be enough? |
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Since: Sep 30, 2004
Posts: 1048
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(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Will 15 wins be enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:33:49 -0700, magikman45 <magikman45 RemoveThis @cox.net>
wrote:
>
>
>wunnuy wrote:
>> "Chris Zabel" <alephnull RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<BQr6d.6431$Ki1.3996@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
>>
>>>Personally I don't believe the voters will give it to RJ this year. While
>>>he probably deserves it, there is some precedent that previous multiple
>>>award winners(Pedro, Maddux, Clemens) have to really put up monster numbers
>>>to win it again and 15 wins is just not going to cut it with the voters(I'd
>>>wonder if the average voter is even familiar with VORP). It was Jason
>>>Schmidt's to lose a month ago and he seems to have done just that though.
>>>This year's race is really wide open. My bet would be on one of the 2 Astro
>>>pitchers to win it.
>>
>>
>>
>> He doesn't deserve it when his team is the worst team in baseball and
>> there are other pitchers deserving of the award like Clemens, who
>> defnitely deserves it.
>
>
>What does the team record have to do with an individual pitcher's
>performance? You obviously are not a student of the game to make that
>statement. Johnson may not win it, but his numbers are superior to
>Clemens in just about every category. Clemens started out this season
>very strongly. You may want to check out how he's pitched since.
>
>If you really want to dig deeper, you might want to check out how much
>the lack of run support for Randy Johnson affected his record. Give him
>the same as Clemens and he wins well over 20 games.
That is exactly how the team affects the CY voting.
Tom >> Stay informed about: Will 15 wins be enough? |
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Since: Sep 30, 2004
Posts: 1048
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(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Will 15 wins be enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Thu, 30 Sep 2004 01:23:30 GMT, "Mark Encinas" <encfam.RemoveThis@citlink.net>
wrote:
>Though team record should not have anything to do with a pitcher's
>performance, unfortunately I think a lot of consideration goes into it.
>Randy has had a pretty solid season
It's been a lot better than "pretty solid".
Tom
>but has gotten no run support at all.
>And the Diamondbacks just outright stink this year. Because he is Randy
>Johnson he will get some consideration but I would be very surprised if he
>won. All to often it comes down to the winner's record and he has just not
>won enough games. If he had won 20 or more with this team he would have an
>excellent chance but not with 15. Just my thoughts.
>ME
>
>"magikman45" <magikman45.RemoveThis@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:415B546D.7000306@cox.net...
>>
>>
>> wunnuy wrote:
>> > "Chris Zabel" <alephnull.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:<BQr6d.6431$Ki1.3996@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
>> >
>> >>Personally I don't believe the voters will give it to RJ this year.
>While
>> >>he probably deserves it, there is some precedent that previous multiple
>> >>award winners(Pedro, Maddux, Clemens) have to really put up monster
>numbers
>> >>to win it again and 15 wins is just not going to cut it with the
>voters(I'd
>> >>wonder if the average voter is even familiar with VORP). It was Jason
>> >>Schmidt's to lose a month ago and he seems to have done just that
>though.
>> >>This year's race is really wide open. My bet would be on one of the 2
>Astro
>> >>pitchers to win it.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > He doesn't deserve it when his team is the worst team in baseball and
>> > there are other pitchers deserving of the award like Clemens, who
>> > defnitely deserves it.
>>
>>
>> What does the team record have to do with an individual pitcher's
>> performance? You obviously are not a student of the game to make that
>> statement. Johnson may not win it, but his numbers are superior to
>> Clemens in just about every category. Clemens started out this season
>> very strongly. You may want to check out how he's pitched since.
>>
>> If you really want to dig deeper, you might want to check out how much
>> the lack of run support for Randy Johnson affected his record. Give him
>> the same as Clemens and he wins well over 20 games.
>>
> >> Stay informed about: Will 15 wins be enough? |
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Since: Sep 30, 2004
Posts: 1048
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(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Will 15 wins be enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On 30 Sep 2004 08:49:06 -0700, wunnuy RemoveThis @netzero.net (wunnuy) wrote:
>magikman45 <magikman45 RemoveThis @cox.net> wrote in message news:<415B546D.7000306 RemoveThis @cox.net>...
>> wunnuy wrote:
>> > "Chris Zabel" <alephnull RemoveThis @earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<BQr6d.6431$Ki1.3996@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
>> >
>> >>Personally I don't believe the voters will give it to RJ this year. While
>> >>he probably deserves it, there is some precedent that previous multiple
>> >>award winners(Pedro, Maddux, Clemens) have to really put up monster numbers
>> >>to win it again and 15 wins is just not going to cut it with the voters(I'd
>> >>wonder if the average voter is even familiar with VORP). It was Jason
>> >>Schmidt's to lose a month ago and he seems to have done just that though.
>> >>This year's race is really wide open. My bet would be on one of the 2 Astro
>> >>pitchers to win it.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > He doesn't deserve it when his team is the worst team in baseball and
>> > there are other pitchers deserving of the award like Clemens, who
>> > defnitely deserves it.
>>
>>
>> What does the team record have to do with an individual pitcher's
>> performance? You obviously are not a student of the game to make that
>> statement. Johnson may not win it, but his numbers are superior to
>> Clemens in just about every category. Clemens started out this season
>> very strongly. You may want to check out how he's pitched since.
>
>
>You're obviously not a student of the game if you don't know writers
>take into consideration where the pitcher's team finishes up. You may
>want to check out how Cy Young voting has went in the past before you
>tell someone else they don't knwo what they're talking about.
Maybe, but he says that he doesn't deserve it...that puts the argument
in a different place.
Tom >> Stay informed about: Will 15 wins be enough? |
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Posts: 964
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(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 10:31 pm
Post subject: Re: Will 15 wins be enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On 9/30/2004 8:49:06 AM, wunnuy wrote:
> You're obviously not a student of the game if you don't know writers
> take into consideration where the pitcher's team finishes up. You may
> want to check out how Cy Young voting has went in the past before you
> tell someone else they don't knwo what they're talking about.
YOU said he doesn't deserve it. What does that have to do with the
writers?
--
Pitchers.bat found - delete dh.sys (Y/y)? >> Stay informed about: Will 15 wins be enough? |
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Since: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 286
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(Msg. 12) Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Will 15 wins be enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Tarkus <karnevil9.DeleteThis@beer.com> wrote in message news:<6kait4hqv178.dlg.DeleteThis@tarkus.karnevil9.com>...
> On 9/30/2004 8:49:06 AM, wunnuy wrote:
>
> > You're obviously not a student of the game if you don't know writers
> > take into consideration where the pitcher's team finishes up. You may
> > want to check out how Cy Young voting has went in the past before you
> > tell someone else they don't knwo what they're talking about.
>
> YOU said he doesn't deserve it. What does that have to do with the
> writers?
My God, get a life. You know exactly what I'm talking about. The
writers will not pick him for Cy young because his team is the worst
in baseball. Unless your name is STeve Carlton, you don't win the Cy
Young pitcing for a last place team. Get a grip and learn how the game
works. >> Stay informed about: Will 15 wins be enough? |
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Since: Sep 29, 2004
Posts: 964
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(Msg. 13) Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2004 7:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Will 15 wins be enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On 10/1/2004 4:23:20 PM, wunnuy wrote:
> Tarkus <karnevil9 RemoveThis @beer.com> wrote in message news:<6kait4hqv178.dlg RemoveThis @tarkus.karnevil9.com>...
>> On 9/30/2004 8:49:06 AM, wunnuy wrote:
>>
>>> You're obviously not a student of the game if you don't know writers
>>> take into consideration where the pitcher's team finishes up. You
>>> may want to check out how Cy Young voting has went in the past
>>> before you tell someone else they don't knwo what they're talking
>>> about.
>>
>> YOU said he doesn't deserve it. What does that have to do with the
>> writers?
>
> My God, get a life. You know exactly what I'm talking about. The
> writers will not pick him for Cy young because his team is the worst
> in baseball. Unless your name is STeve Carlton, you don't win the Cy
> Young pitcing for a last place team. Get a grip and learn how the game
> works.
Again, unless English is not your first language, I'm not sure how that
relates to you saying he doesn't deserve it. If you want to say you
don't think he'll get it, that's an entirely different argument.
--
"Whoever hits behind Barry (Bonds) always comes up with runners on base.
He completely controls a game like no one I've ever seen." - Jim Tracy >> Stay informed about: Will 15 wins be enough? |
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Posts: 286
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(Msg. 14) Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:27 am
Post subject: Re: Will 15 wins be enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Tarkus <karnevil9.RemoveThis@beer.com> wrote in message news:<1vftrp5vtxvwh.dlg.RemoveThis@tarkus.karnevil9.com>...
> On 10/1/2004 4:23:20 PM, wunnuy wrote:
>
> > Tarkus <karnevil9.RemoveThis@beer.com> wrote in message news:<6kait4hqv178.dlg.RemoveThis@tarkus.karnevil9.com>...
> >> On 9/30/2004 8:49:06 AM, wunnuy wrote:
> >>
> >>> You're obviously not a student of the game if you don't know writers
> >>> take into consideration where the pitcher's team finishes up. You
> >>> may want to check out how Cy Young voting has went in the past
> >>> before you tell someone else they don't knwo what they're talking
> >>> about.
> >>
> >> YOU said he doesn't deserve it. What does that have to do with the
> >> writers?
> >
> > My God, get a life. You know exactly what I'm talking about. The
> > writers will not pick him for Cy young because his team is the worst
> > in baseball. Unless your name is STeve Carlton, you don't win the Cy
> > Young pitcing for a last place team. Get a grip and learn how the game
> > works.
>
> Again, unless English is not your first language, I'm not sure how that
> relates to you saying he doesn't deserve it. If you want to say you
> don't think he'll get it, that's an entirely different argument.
Again, unless you can get your head out of your ass and read my post,
you'll see that I am talking about how CY youngs are voted about.
Crimany, do you guys picks arguments for the sake of picking
arguments? I can get this from my woman. >> Stay informed about: Will 15 wins be enough? |
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(Msg. 15) Posted: Sat Oct 02, 2004 7:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Will 15 wins be enough? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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On 10/2/2004 9:27:51 AM, wunnuy wrote:
> Again, unless you can get your head out of your ass and read my post,
> you'll see that I am talking about how CY youngs are voted about.
I did read your original post, in which YOU said he didn't DESERVE it.
Do you always resort to childish insults when someone challenges
something you said?
--
"I actually get paid by the number of readers who get really ticked off
about what I write. Otherwise, I wouldn't be nearly so offensive."
- Rob Neyer, when asked how he is paid by ESPN >> Stay informed about: Will 15 wins be enough? |
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